Yay naive optimism~!!

[candyland]

Heard this morning, in which S = student and M = me...

S: I'm a risk-taker!
M: Really?
S: Yes! I used to be all quiet and "don't do anything wrong" and stuff, and now I'm on the edge! I live dangerously! I am a risk-taker!
Me: Oh, what did you do?
S: ...well, nothing yet.

XDDDD

Anyway, I got a comment from someone yesterday that got me thinking. We were bouncing comments back and forth over on my story on candyfics. Now, we have two different ships for Professor Layton. sometimesuhurt ships Luke and Layton, whereas I see it as more of a father-son relationship.

And the comment was made that it was cool that we could still be friends, despite being at opposite ends of the shipping spectrum for the game and fandom. And that got me thinking...

Are people in fandom really so close-minded that they won't even be friends with someone who has a different ship?



I mean, I read fandomsecrets. I'm aware that there are a lot of people who are extremely territorial over their pairings. I've observed a couple of ship-wars from the outside, and actually been involved in one--I did not start the fight, but I helped to end it.

Details on that Back in my CCS days, I followed the mainstream pairings--Sakura/Syaoran and Eriol/Tomoyo were my two favorites. I had a few good friends in the E/T 'ship, and was rather enjoying my first non-canon pairing. All was well.

Then I get an irate IM--someone had left a very rude review on an E/T fic over on The Pit, in which they lambasted the author and the pairing, saying that Eriol loved Kaho (which was canon), this was not what CLAMP intended, etc. The E/T fandom was mobilizing, and it sounded like things were going to get ugly. I was asked to join in.

I didn't agree to flame anyone, but I agreed to email the reviewer. And I did--sent a relatively polite email, worded as nicely as possible, explaining that I had been asked to contact her, explaining my position, etc. Within twenty-four hours I'd gotten a reply. The first words in her response? "Thank god! Someone sane!"

We wound up bouncing maybe a dozen emails back and forth over the course of several days. We discussed fandom liberties versus artistic intention--it was a very intelligent conversation, and I enjoyed it. In the end, we parted ways with a thanks for the discussion. She admitted that the review was rude and said she would try to opt for the "Don't like, don't read" school. I promised that I would try to get the flame-wars stopped.

That, to date, is my sole involvement in a fandom ship-war.

I have a lot of friends who do not follow the pairings I follow. I usually tend to get caught in with canon pairings (initially, at least), but I know a lot of people who do not do that. But I can talk fandom with them without any problems. It's simply a matter of setting boundaries.

clover_magic, I'm going to use you as an example. She does not like the Shinichi/Ran ship. I wrote them for 30_kisses. I know why she feels that way, and she knows that it is a pairing I enjoy. So more often than not, it just doesn't come up, and we're both cool with that. Her pairing is Kaito/Shinichi, which is not my favorite pairing by any means...but I don't hate it, and so I'll cheerfully discuss it. No bashing occurs. All is well.

I guess I was raised in the school of "Don't like? Don't read!" If I don't care for a pairing or even a particular character, I'm not going to read ficcage about that pairing or character. No one is forcing me to click the link--I can go on my merry way. Voila! The author gets to enjoy her character/pairing, and I can go about my business without being bothered. Everyone is happy. No problems.

I don't know...maybe I'm naive. But if I only associated with people who liked my pairings, my internet social circle would be a whole lot smaller. And it would be boring, I think.

It just struck me, that's all.



We now return you to your regularly scheduled El-Jay stuff. Will have more ficcage to post later tonight. Ciao for now!

Comments

[cherelle-holmes.livejournal.com]

*scratches head* Öhm well...
I don't mind my frinds lovin' other ships than I do and vice versa!
Dunno why there are people out ther who go "What that pairing? NO MORE FRIENDS WITH YOU!"
Guess I don't have to understand that *shrugs*

PS: And your students are lovely XD

[ytak.livejournal.com]

So, out of the mouths of babes? ^_^ (I think you're old enough to get away with calling them that.)

Shipping wars (and I don't mean the ones that ship goods and people around the world) are kind of scary and somewhat stupid. There are thousands of more important things out there than a pairing of fictional characters. I wish people would keep that in mind. I am also of the "don't like, then don't read it" mentality.

I will admit that I am a pretty rabid Sato/Takagi. But I will give Matsuda/Sato a chance. And I do like the Eriol/Tomoyo pairing. I think its because I just don't feel the connection between Eriol and Kaho. And I won't go shoving them down anyone's throat. I'll write 'em and read 'em. I may even tell you why I like 'em. ^_^=

[insaneladybug.livejournal.com]

My only problem with befriending people who don't like what I like in a fandom is worrying wondering if they'll get rabid. XD; I don't really want a "friend" who will just be constantly putting down what I like. If I know they're intelligent people, willing to agree to disagree, I have no problem.

And Don't Like Don't Read is a wonderful policy. X3

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

(shrug)
I've never get the point of shippwars...and to be honest, I'm bemused more by anything else by the majority of so-called secret on fandomsecret.^^;
(Oh, you're shipping X and Z together?Yeah, ok...So what? You needs to hides yourself behind a secret veil to claim that? Come on... )

I could see the point of intelligent debate with people having different ship/tastes/opinions, as long everyone remain civil.
Hey, it's good to see things through a different perspective, and sometimes, defending your opinions in front of a sceptical fellow push you to find new stuff to enjoy in your favorite characters/pairings.

I could understand how you could become harsh in front of character bashing for the sake of OTP-ism(character bashing by itself is lame...but it's more stupid and absurd when people are bashing a character because (s)he's a supposed obstacle between the two half of their favorite pairing)
Hey, sometimes, it's good to slap the moron on the head.

But well...the "don't like, don't read" seemed commun sense for me.
If I took the risk to read a fic about a pairing that I dislike/don't like much(sometimes, there is something else in the story which could catch my interest, or authors so skilled that I could enjoy stories which don't match with my tastes), I would assume the risk of beeing disapointed at the end, instead of beeing harsh with the author.
Oh sure, I could let a critic, but it would be for OOCness or stuff like that, not for subjective stuff like the theme/pairing chosen by the author.

I'm annoyed by the majority of pairing/kind of romance in the DC fandom, and when I'm pissed, I would never lose an occasion to rant on my own LJ about that...but come on, I'm too lazy to become the holy crusader flaming the awfull heretic shipping childhood lovers. XD;
(And times used to flaming stories/having pointless debate with opposite shippers is times wasted...which could have been used to read/write porn, dammit!)

Everyone with a bit of commun sense(or after few months wasted in the internet) know that flaming and stupid wank would never convert a shipper to the opposite side.

And no matters how much I'm annoyed by the lack of variety in my fandom/how much it's hard to find stories suited to my tastes, I don't want to see fandom having strict quota, to be sure that everyone would have his/her part of fun, no matters his/her taste.
I would be annoyed if people were restraining me to write a plunny because it don't match with the fair balance between Het, yaoi, yuri, gen and/or the proportional amount of stories about X in front of stories about Z in fandom H, so, beeing consequent with myself, I don't want to see others people beeing forced to write what I want to read instead of write what they want to read.

Fandom is a space of freedom and pleasure, fanfiction is an hobby, period.

For friendlist and stuff...well, dear candy, the single fact that we're in each other's friendlist is a living proof that pacific coexistance between totally opposite shippers is not an utopia, as long everyone could find a commun ground and know which to stay behind his/her respective boundaries in some area.^_-

Yeah, yeah, so peace, love, makes prun, not shipping wars, threesome and orgies solves everything etc...
(Ok, I admit, I've lost the goold old flame in my heart, and the blindfold of stupidity was torned apart by years... Now, I'm too lazy and cynical to jump at innocent people's throat just because they're wanking with different porn that mine!
Damn you, bit of maturity!Xp XD )

[randomaicoholic.livejournal.com]

Oh well, a little adendum... I remember your basic example in the begining(your friend loving a pairing, yourself picturing the two characters having a platonic relationship), and it makes me ponders.

Maybe that I'm an exception, but when I love a pairing, it's because the relationship between the characters is interesting/touching for me, no matters if there is attraction or not.
Ran/Shiho(for example) is my OTP but I could enjoy(or even write) a story picturing those two as friends and nothing else, without pushing the authors to write them as lovers(except if it's a friend and if I want to tease him/her for fun! XD).
As long it's interesting, well written, IC, and as long my favorite characters are inside, why should I ask? I've more that enough.

[abarero]

Oh ship wars. Luckily, there are some very nice smaller fandoms- such as the Conan fandom, or the LJ part of the One Piece fandom, in which everyone plays nice and gets along. But it can really get nasty.

I think my issue with friending people who ships that contradict mine comes down to what insaneladybug said: I don't really want a "friend" who will just be constantly putting down what I like. If I know they're intelligent people, willing to agree to disagree, I have no problem. Because it's true. Sometimes there are shippers out there that spend more time posting about why they hate X ship and Y character than they do posting about the ship they actually support. It's ridiculous! Shipping, character-loving, etc- are all meant to be FUN and SQUEEFUL. And sadly, there are some people out there who have missed that point entirely and just spend all the time complaining.

[nezure.livejournal.com]

Didn't you know? THE INTERNET IS SRS BZNEZ. AND SO IS FANDOM.

Joking aside, I basically agree with what most of the other people here have already said.

Fandom should be about fun and enjoying oneself, and not about having to try pleasing everybody. "Don't like, don't read" is a glorious thing. Why read something that you know you're going to hate, especially if you're going to use it as excuse to be a jackass?

It's sorta pointless. ~_~

The closest I've ever come to a flame-war was in the YGO fandom, when somebody was spouting a bunch of fanon as though it was canon; I disagreed, and so I called them on it; as politely as I could, I explained that it was bad form to say that a theory was a fact set in stone.

Then I had to explain that no, I didn't hate them, no, I wasn't trying to bash anybody, and no, I did not want them to leave the internet. Feh. x_X

[laytonmeme.livejournal.com]

I've actually abstained from fiction-fandom for a while just because of this sort of thing. Not just shipping wars, mind, but they tend to start this sort of thing off... It put me off shipping anything for a while!

I'm kind of...amazed by how gentle and easygoing the Layton fandom is for ships; I mean, there's only one ship I don't really like much (Kid!Luke x Layton). But I've talked to people who ship it, had a nice conversation, and we can all stay friends and have some tea afterwards.
I don't see the point in acting rude and confrontational to someone because they happen to like a different two fictional characters together!

..._{Also your student = adorable!}

[sometimesuhurt.livejournal.com]

Haha. To me, Layton/Luke IS canon. &hearts &hearts &hearts

but yeah, that comment was just off-handed. I'm totally cool with respecting what other people like and talking about it, even if I don't enjoy it personally. Fandoms are meant to be enjoyed by everyone and all that jazz. I just thought that it was funny that I'm the person commenting on all your fics with a "Layton/Luke yessssssssss"...

ALSO: We need more Layton icons in the fandom. SRSLY.

[clover-magic.livejournal.com]

I was an example! ♥

My problem is that it cuts down so many discussion opportunities....I love my pairing. I want to chat about them, read about them, etc. But I also don't really care to discuss pairings I don't like. The conversation would die quickly because I wouldn't have anything to say on the matter other than "no I don't understand because I don't like them together". I don't mind discussing pairings I don't mind, but when I actively don't like a pairing, I have nothing to say on it.

And, unfortunately....since the pairings I don't like are the canon ones, which run the majority of the English-speaking fanbase, that means I can't discuss pairings with most of the fandom, because I don't like most of the canon pairings. I also don't like most of the popular alternate ones - Conan/Ai comes to mind.

So, I'm left actively seeking out those who at least tolerate my pairing, because otherwise I'd have no one to share my love for the pairing with. I love my pairing. I want to talk about it. Everyone wants to talk about their favorite pairing, it's fandom nature. It's just...finding people who you can talk to that's hard. I'd have a hard time carrying on a conversation exclusive to ShinRan - most of my replies would be limited to "uh-huh" and "mmmn". I don't diss or insult other pairings at all, just...I don't have anything to say. And yeah, okay, so the pairing itself irritates me. The people who ship it don't, unless it's the uncreative fanbrats on FF.Net who fill page after page of the Conan section with the same five summaries rewritten different ways.

Unlike a canon pairing fandom, I have to work to spread my OTP. It gets a little disheartening at times when I realize I'm about the only English fan who writes them exclusively or with any regularity, but I keep trekking on. Maybe I'll convert another prolific writer...someday.

...Errrrr, teal deer. In short? I don't flame other pairings, just because I love a certain one. I just lose a lot of friend opportunities, because just like I wouldn't like to hear someone go on and on about Shinichi and Ran's one true love, I won't force anyone else who doesn't like my pairing to listen to me blab on about Kaito and Shinichi's one true love.

Example: A few years back I got into a fandom discussion with a few big names of the fandom, though I won't name them here. It was all great and dandy, until we started assigning elements to the main chars because we could. Then one of them, a whole-hearted canon pairing fan, took the elements as some sort of proof for the main canon pairings. I didn't try to say she was wrong, just tried to show that the main pairings aren't as perfect as they would seem. Didn't even mention my pairing at all, didn't try to use the proof for my own pairing or anything...just tried to show that no one pairing is infallible.

I ended up having to just leave the discussion. No one agreed with me at all, and I just felt cornered. What's the use of being in the discussion if no one wants to hear what I have to say? Likewise, I didn't need to listen endlessly about pairings I don't like. But it still left a bitter taste, because now I can't talk with a lot of friends simply because a giant portion of their conversations I'll be left out of. I'm not going to support a pairing I don't like, and I decided I didn't like it on my own - no amount of pleading is going to get me to like a pairing I don't like. I'm not going to plead with others to get them to like my pairing.

But sometimes I wish it did, especially since now I'm confined to such a small section of fandom.

In short...ILU CANDY. YOU TALK WITH ME. ;-;